Latest article by Pat Buchanan
You have got to be kidding me.
Where are the Christians? I'll tell you where they are. They're fighting the terrorists that are trying to kill your family. They're bleeding in the streets trying to help people that are affected by wars in the Middle East.
Defenseless Lebanon? The poor, defenseless government that has refused to fight against Hezbollah?
"...To punish these people for electing Hamas..." What the crap is that? Hamas = Radical Islamic ideology that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. If it wasn't for the peace loving hippies at the U.N. Hamas would have been wiped off the map ages ago.
What about protecting innocent Israeli civilians makes this war un-Christian? What about removing a threat to the peace and stability of the region makes this un-Christian? Think about it...what would Israel be if there was no Hamas or Hezbollah? Peaceful? *Gasp*
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
13 comments:
How was Israel formed back in ~1947...
Actually, Israel was formed long before 1947...hmmm...let me check my history though. I believe the British granted them land as they withdrew from the region.
I guess you could say the British "granted" them land. It's a little more like seized land and handed it over to new residents. In the middle of the night without anyone else knowing the Brit military (with the help of Israeli military...whatever it was at the time) kicked out the inhabitants of the land and gave a new home to Israel (including many migrant Jews from Europe I think). I think this is where the "homeless" Palestinians come from. Prior to this, Israel as a nation had no real control of the region for about 1000 years. Not to defend the Israel's adversaries but, it should give you some perspective for why they are so pissed off. According to Islamic law (their religious code), Israel's land belongs to Muslims. This may be a radical belief but so are Christian beliefs...we just fail to live them out in a radical way (to our shame). Because our beliefs are more peaceful and loving does not make them superior to Islam (only the fact that they are true makes them superior).
It would be hard to argue that any American war is "Christian" beyond basic moral principles. Our wars are often political/economic/etc. powerplays. Why you and I and others fight may be for different reasons. If our wars were truly Christian we would probably start out with the oppressed in Africa or SE Asia and then worry about the threat to our own butts in the Middle East.
I can't say I agree or disagree with Buchanan. But it is not our Christian duty to defend Israel any more than it is our duty to defend oppressed Muslims, pagans and Christians around the globe.
The Christian's primary weapons are telling the truth, loving people, and dying for it. The sword of justice is secondary. Until we have the heart to send 100,000 missionaries or more to the Middle East at risk of their lives...we have no business claiming the "Christian" responsibility to protect innocent people there.
This doesn't mean I think the military should withdraw from the Mid-East or other areas but we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we are meeting our true Christian obligation. If the Hamas saw 10,000 Christian martyrs a month they might just give up (with the added benefit of some converts), that's how Christian always won in the past. Our soldiers go to war because American Christians are too cowardly to live up to their primary responsiblity.
Think before 1948 (the year Israel became it's own state and Jews came flooding back to their land). Yes you are right Steve - Israel hasn't been under Jewish rule since the last king in the Old Testament (2,500 years previously).
However, there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" race. What the Palestinians are, are Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebonese, etc and it was the French that misprounced the name "Philistines" (mocking there greed over the land in reference to the OT) and coined the name "Palestinians". That's where the Palestinian name comes from, not a race that has it's sole history in Israel but from the surrounding lands.
This war, though projected as political, is almost completely based in religious belief (Islamic belief and practices vs. Judeo/Christian belief and practices). I agree that if the Church was to stand for Christian values, the would pick up and share the Word (the sword) over taking aggresive action in support of Israel.
Israel has the right to defend herself. Our helping Israel "under the banner of Christian duty" only spurs the enemy more toward the destruction of Israel and the US.
I agree with you Steve. I don't agree with this sympathy card for the "Palestinians" when they have their own ancenstorial lines in the nations adjacent to Israel, and this attitude of Israel and the US are the enemy because they're defending land and their way of life.
Didn't mean to imply Palestinians are a race of people...only a displaced people group (much like many Jews were prior 1947). Point being, Palistinians who occupied part of the land little more than 50 years ago were given the boot and no one complains yet overly romantic Christians get the goofy idea that Jews have some claim to the land because they controlled it in a past millenium (worse, they think the idea is biblical).
The war is far from completely religious. Many Israelis are luke-warm in their religious beliefs, particulary those who are in power. The Jews calling the shots are not very religious Jews. Israel doesn't really have any publicly known religious motives for fighting. Yes, there is much speculation from all sorts of people (e.g. they want to rebuild the temple) but speculation is it. The Jews don't need to be sole proprietors to continue their current religious practices. On the other hand, there are all sorts of practical concerns (like econonmics and safety) that more realistically might drive Israel to war. It's no small thing that Israel treats its Christians just as bad if not worse than Muslims. The fighting is by no means Judeo-Christian vs. Muslim. I would agree that the fighting is more religious for the Arab side. They do have a religious necessity to rid the land of the Jews and they are probably as a whole much more devote in their religious practice. But the Palestinians also have interests in the land besides the religious. The may have blood-lines in the surrounding nations but those nations don't want them. If Israel gives them the boot, they become nomads. There are lots of religious undertones to the fighting between Israel and Arabs but on the surface the Arab nations are far more interested in getting rid of the sole ally to the US in the region. U.A.E isn't going to take its place.
I'm not trying to win sympathy for the Palestinians. I just want Christians to stop thinking the Israelis deserve it more...especially because their pastors tell them that bible prophecy says Israel is supposed to have the land.
GREAT points!
I wasn't intentionally "Christianizing" the politics involved in the Middle East and should have made that a little more clear, I guess. Sometimes I get a little carried away. I'm not naive to the motivations of men and nations, though...I realize that we're not at war because we're Christians, though it is important to note (as you said, Steve)that as Christians our motivations can be different.
As for supporting Israel, to me it seems obvious. They are marked in the Bible as God's chosen people, even now that there is wholesale salvation available to Gentiles (us). They are the "tree" of faith that we have been grafted into...why would we not support them? Biblically speaking, not supporting Israel has implications for both individuals and nations that are, quite frankly, terrifying. This doesn't mean the support should be a constant regardless of the morality of their actions, of course...if the Israeli's start sending suicide bombers to Palestinian territory to murder civilians, I'd speak out against it, too.
As for the Palestinians.... To me, the whole concept is hogwash. At this point, it doesn't matter who used to control the land Israel claims as it's own (even if it wasn't granted by God). What would the US Government do if Native American tribes decided to start sending out suicide bombers, start firing rockets into civilian cities and whatever else the 'Palestinians' are doing? We'd stomp them into the ground, and rightly so. The concept is the same. Israel has consistently complied with the demands of Hamas and Hezballah (forgive the spelling please) over the course of YEARS and they have been consistently betrayed. The Israeli government has rooted out it's own citizens in the quest for peace, and in return they get those citizens killed by the people that demanded their removal.
Think about Afghanistan. They were warned to hand over the people guilty of crimes against the United States. They were warned to "turn from their wicked ways," so to speak...and refused to do so. Now they don't exist any more because they willingly harbored (and trained, and armed, and deployed)a threat to the peace and security of the United States. That is what Israel is doing in Lebanon.
As for Israel not being able to dismantle Hezballah in 19 years and expecting Lebanon to do so, that is a croc of crap, too. What Buchanan convienently forgets to mention is the fact that Israel is being constantly hammered by the (anti-Israeli) international community because they try to do exactly that.
Well anyway, that's my opinion for now. :) Adios.
Hamas and Hezballah exist for one purpose - the destruction of Israel.
Being God's chosen people doesn't qualify Israel for any special treatment...especially while they continue to do the things that bring them under God's judgment rather than blessing (namely, deny their Savior).
Biblically, there is no reason to support or not support Israel any more than any other nation. Our dealing with Israel and every other nation is supposed to be righteous. Right now, Israel is little different than the pagan nations around them. The bible teachers who warn that we'll be in trouble with God if we don't support Israel should save their interpretations for fantasy novels. Don't get caught up in the popular interpretations of bible prophecy that most churches seem to be into. Their are many other opinions out there. You're better off taking a balanced opinion and avoiding hard-line interpretations, especially the poplular ones.
I guess it would be a good thing to think about what I'm saying, eh?
I guess rejecting the Savior would qualify as an immoral decision. :)
I wish I could have conversations like this here.
Do you agree and believe in Replacement Theology? It sure seems like it, and that is directly a violation of the Word. I'm through reading this crap, its nothing but liberalism defining the ME Conflict.
I'm not really familiar enough with replacement theologians to say I agree with them. One problem with theology is that any given label has too many definitions to blindly accept it as your own. I'm not a dispensationalist and have the hardest time accepting the premillenial viewpoint if that helps. Gentiles grafted in and Jews cut-off on a large scale works for me...although there are plenty of small scale exceptions to this.
As for liberalism...John, I think you're jumping to conclusions. You have no idea who I am. Often enough I choose to argue the other side just to bring out personal biases (we're by no means perfect...even as conservatives). Aside from that, I'm talking religion and theology, not politics really.
John, if you disagree, then argue your point (at least state it). Don't just label everything you don't like the sound of as crap and liberalism. Conservatives are supposed to be thinkers, not whiners.
John, Steve is one of the most faithfull followers of Christ I know. And yes, he does play the devil's advocate... :)
Steve, you aren't making sense in what you are saying (or arguing) politically or religious, I would in fact say especially the latter. Stating what you believe in your last post, confirms your emphasis on replacement theology in general, regardless of specifics.
Dan, you were on the right track at first though I have noticed in many of your posts and comments that as soon as someone says anything contrary to your thought, you are too easily swayed. What do you believe and why.
I am neither a conservative nor a liberal, I guess it depends on the issue as to where I lie, however as I study history both political and biblical I have to greatly disagree with you Steve.
I never said I was a Christian in the first place though I do study all aspects of history to know the status of Israel and the Middle East crisis both politically and religiously. You two aren't scoring many points for Jesus with persuading people to find the truth in this argument. That's why I'm done here, I'd rather hear people that actually know what they think, why and don't contradict each other in their beliefs (or get swayed to the opposition too easily).
Sorry, out of town for a few days...probably no one left reading this.
John, once again you are just complaining without any arguments. You brought up replacement theology but haven't given any support for your belief in or against it. You complained about liberalism in my post but say you're not a conservative or liberal. I'm not trying to "score points for Jesus" but how could I anyway since you haven't stated what you disagree with.
Post a Comment